tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post5650229193675780649..comments2022-11-20T22:43:59.629-06:00Comments on THIS: CommentThis By Ushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-15848810369712389892010-02-13T13:22:18.542-06:002010-02-13T13:22:18.542-06:00Hmmm some time since any comments have appeared he...Hmmm some time since any comments have appeared here. Has anyone noticed how hard it is to maintain these things through time? I am beginning to see that reinventing the wheel really is an issue... it happens all the time. <br /><br />What are students at the U of M Dance Program thinking right now? I'm far from this, and have no clue how things are progressing. It would be nice to hear about how things are going, as I would love to be an outside support.Ginny the Sock Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655059357754788626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-17802140793317862042009-05-29T21:51:57.594-05:002009-05-29T21:51:57.594-05:00booooo. you guys are brats.booooo. you guys are brats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-3165692595741995662009-05-26T23:33:26.377-05:002009-05-26T23:33:26.377-05:00I am a racist.
I am a white male, and while I do ...I am a racist.<br /><br />I am a white male, and while I do not consider myself to be a bigot, I do receive both willingly and unwillingly privilege because of my race, and that makes me a racist. It may be tough for whites to admit this, because quite frankly it is not a fun thing to realize. In fact, racism is a word that because of it's associations with bigotry, prejudice, the KKK and all their horrible acts is something that us white people try to avoid like the plague. We try to distance ourselves from that word by saying that we have friends of color, "don't see color", or support equality, but we are still racist.<br /><br />You may now be thinking if you are white and reading this that "racism ended in the 60's". It didn't. What ended was the iron fist of racism, that was out in the open, and made no apologies for the atrocities that it committed. What we have done since the 60's is put a velvet glove over that iron fist and we've hidden racism by putting colored faces at the front of our organization and saying "look how wonderful we are" while at the same time allowing our institutions to keep oppressing people of color.<br /><br />As white people we receive privileges that go completely unnoticed by us throughout every single day of our lives. When we walk into a store we recieve help right away. When we walk into a bank we are automatically more likely to get a loan. When we go looking for a home we are shown "white" neighborhoods with good school districts and are led away from high crime areas. In school we are given second and third chances where people of color barely get one. People in general trust us more just based on the color of our skin.<br /><br />If you can not see the privileges that you receive, just ask a person of color and they will be glad to tell you, or you can try to open your own eyes. If you can't and "one of your best friends is a person of color" do an experiment and go car shopping and take notes as to how you are both treated, it might shock you. If you are unwilling to open your eyes, then I do feel sorry for you, and I must apologize to our society on your behalf. Cypher from the movie the Matrix once said, "Ignorance is bliss", and I've heard people use that line before thinking they are witty. They are wrong, especially in the case of racism. With racism, "Ignorance is destructive".<br /><br />While these privileges are nice to have, they are poisonous to the long term health of both our society and race. They prevent us from fulfilling our true potential, and they prevent us from benefiting from the efforts of people of color. We need to accecpt that our society is at it's foundation racist in that it works for the benefit of white people, and until we can change those fundamentals we all suffer.<br /><br />I will end now with a chant that is often ignored from the civil rights movement. "White people, go home and free your own people!"Michael Tatehttp://www.michaelatate.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-56928925621440501822009-05-15T00:49:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:49:00.000-05:00The following comment was submitted anonymously in...The following comment was submitted anonymously in the <A HREF="http://thisbyus.blogspot.com/2008/05/support-protest.html" REL="nofollow">Support the Protest</A> section on Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:08 PM: <br /><br />I have a problem with your protest attacking the department's program specialist's actions. You conveniently have left out an important fact - there is a board that is open for student posting in the building. Your argument reads as if there is no space in the building where you can air you grievances or let your thoughts be known. This is simply untrue and to place blame on the program specialist is cowardly.<br /><br />I would like to post an open letter on the front doors of the White House. That doesn't mean I can or should expect that to be a reality. While she may or may not have reacted to the program in a productive way, there are rules and she was simply following them. And yes I do realize that protests must break the rules or nothing will change. I simply don't believe in this case you would have to compromise in a substantial way the point you are attempting to get across by using the board that is available for your use. Just as many people would be able to view your words if it was in the approved space.<br /><br />I believe your protest raises good questions and should be taken seriously. Unfortunately your latest cry of foul lacks some much needed context.<br /><br />I also have a problem with the semi-anonymous, passive-aggressive behavior of attacking people without using their names. Give Jessica some respect and call her by her name if you wish to attack her via this blog. Everyone involved in the program knows the people to which you refer. The use of titles seems to me like a simple tactic to garner support from outsiders. It is much easier to hate a "director" or "chair" or "program specialist" than it is to hate Ananya, Carl, or Jessica. I just wish for slightly more respect than has been shown for the people involved.This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-86099417225309630102009-05-15T00:44:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:44:00.000-05:00The following comment was submitted by Petite Danc...The following comment was submitted by Petite Dancer to the <A HREF="http://thisbyus.blogspot.com/2008/05/support-protest.html" REL="nofollow">Support the Protest</A> section on Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM:<br /><br />I am writing here today because I'm torn in two pieces. My chest feels heavy, and I'm sick to my stomach, because everywhere I turn, someone next to me is begging for support.<br /><br />My friends in the dance program have felt silenced and unsupported by their own faculty. They feel that they cannot reveal themselves, and the reasons for this are very unclear to me, but I feel sad and confused that they do not feel safe. I want them to feel safe.<br /><br />On the other hand, the faculty who have taught me how to find my voice, how to move my body, how to write about what I see in critical ways, are emotionally drained. They have tried to step back in order to hear the concerns of students, but no one has come forth to tell them what they did wrong in order to deserve THIS. They have spent COUNTLESS hours working on their own time, reflecting on what they can do to help students feel safe enough to tell them what they did wrong, meeting with others who may have resources for our department to use in order to work towards change. It is not like they have been sitting on their hands all this time.<br /><br />Also, it take TIME to change something. A lot of TIME. Change is not magical. It is not instant, like sending an email or a text message. And time is a beast. Things will not happen in a few weeks. They may not even happen in a year's time. People, calm down a second, shut your mouths, and open your eyes and ears. It is going to take TIME.<br /><br />I ask you, what is the attack on our faculty and staff accomplishing? Surely bringing down those who have fought for years to improve our dance program in terms of these matters will not improve the situation. It can only make it worse. And bringing down the faculty who have advocated for these issues within our program will not destroy the institutional racism that the calls for support have suggested. I repeat, it can only make it worse.<br /><br />However, I hear the concerns of the students. I am one, and I know about the power dynamics between student and faculty. It is difficult sometimes to stand against that authority and force it to change.<br /><br />But destroying our program from the inside is not going to get our program to where we want it to be.<br /><br />Oh, and all of you out there who don't have any context to what is happening inside of our HOME here at the University of Minnesota Dance Program, don't pretend like you know the entire story, because you can't possibly know. I don't even know the entire story and I'm here in the thick of it. That includes you, blog reader from whatever state or country you are from. If you haven't been here, then you don't know.<br /><br />All you see are pictures and words here on this blog, but you have not placed your body next to a dance major or faculty member in our building and literally felt the pain in their voice wave over your body.<br /><br />Are we trying to attack individuals or institutional racism? Let's focus on the goals here.This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-20418921200725938852009-05-15T00:43:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:43:00.000-05:00The following comment was submitted anonymously to...The following comment was submitted anonymously to the <A HREF="http://thisbyus.blogspot.com/2008/05/support-protest.html" REL="nofollow">Support the Protest</A> section on Mon, May 11, 2009 at 1:26 PM (this is the same content as comment #88 and #89, which we deleted only to fix formatting glitches. It otherwise remains unchanged): <br /><br />This protest is heartbreaking. Why is everyone so quick to support some and villianize others while not even fully understanding the context, or the origins of the protest? The truth is that the people who are harassed and fearful for their safety are not the student protesters but the faculty, staff, and community who have been publicly tied to the stake. Those of us who have tried to show more balance and demonstrate the full scope of the issues have been targeted, victimized and harassed. I, a woman of color, dancer, and social justice activist, have been publicly critical of THIS protest, publicly supportive of the dance faculty, and as a result I fear for my own safety, and I fear for the safety of my children because those "Anonymous" students have no qualms about aggressively outing their detractors while asking for (and receiving) support by any means necessary. When will this witch hunt end? Must we wait until someone is injured, because at this point it is a matter of when (not if) the protesters and their supporters will decide to resort to physical violence. How can this possibly be productive? So you have people from all over the world supporting you, but they don't even know what it is they are supposedly supporting. They don't even know anything about Barker, or the University of Minnesota, or the Dance faculty. Supporters, do your research before you start attacking individuals,look at what they are really doing, what they have done, what they are trying to do, the results will speak for themselves. Dr. Barcelo, Mr. Casper, How long must the faculty and staff be subjected to this universal harassment? How long must members of the dance community and individuals critical of the protest be fearful about entering the Barker center? How long will these students be permitted to continue this Witch Hunt? Do something!This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-71600516063549321342009-05-15T00:38:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:38:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-57878609829408458312009-05-15T00:23:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:23:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-42481484761245810892009-05-15T00:14:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:14:00.000-05:00The following comment was submitted anonymously in...The following comment was submitted anonymously in the <A HREF="http://thisbyus.blogspot.com/2008/05/support-protest.html" REL="nofollow">Support the Protest</A> section on Sun, May 10, 2009 at 11:24 PM: <br /><br />I sincerely hope you realize the harm you are doing to all individuals involved in your "protest." By your actions you are irreversibly altering people's lives. I would tell you to exercise caution, but I fear it is too late. You should be ashamed of your actions. After viewing your blog I am shocked at how self serving your "protest" is.This By Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00173724286502432966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-85273997299361395252009-05-06T00:58:00.000-05:002009-05-06T00:58:00.000-05:00Community has heard -
http://northmplsculture.com...Community has heard -<br /><br />http://northmplsculture.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-60456420749072853262009-05-05T10:50:00.000-05:002009-05-05T10:50:00.000-05:00http://www.policy.umn.edu/groups/ppd/documents/Pol...http://www.policy.umn.edu/groups/ppd/documents/Policy/Distributing_Pubs.cfm<br /><br />Please readAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-47569633099210239702009-04-24T18:30:00.000-05:002009-04-24T18:30:00.000-05:00touche' Pope Lizbet--called my bluff and corrected...touche' Pope Lizbet--called my bluff and corrected my spelling--how clever of you.<br /><br />For once though, you are right on several points. I let my anger get the better of me. Idle threats are useless. Dr. Nancy "Rusty" Barcelo' absolutely deserves to have her name spelled correctly. My point--although admittedly lost in my recent tirade--was that Dr. Chatterjea hires many students to work for her dance company (a company which is not part of the university) so the argument that "employees" of the director are somehow carrying out her evil bidding is just another rediculous and erroneous accusation. I had no intention of actually posting anyones paystub, and I agree it was bad form to threaten it.<br /><br />It is upsetting to standby helplessly and witness a witch hunt unfairly launched at the Dance faculty. Still though, that's no excuse to be guided by anger, it was indeed bad form on my part. I apologize to everyone observing this blog. <br /><br />As for being watched by my employer--thankfully I am not employed by any orwellian overlords, and my employer has neither time nor inclination to care what I do or say in my free time. In fact, my passionate commitment is one of the qualities that got me into my position.<br /><br />Incidentally, there are several Gina's who are lucky enough to work at the University (and likely just as many Elizabeth's)interestingly--all of them are entitled to their own opinions. <br /><br />I hope that Dr. Barcelo' sees the merit in due diligence and thoroughly investigates all sides of this complex situation. No one is perfect, mistakes have been made, and the Dance faculty have been the first to admit that--but this is truly one department that does not deserve the labels that you have been so quick to believe in. <br /><br />I invite you to analyze my grammar and correct my spelling. I will continue to passionately defend the people who have been committed to anti-racist work and anti-biased education. <br /><br />--GinaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-5287807057988871402009-04-22T18:16:00.000-05:002009-04-22T18:16:00.000-05:00I'm rather amused that I'm an internet observer, r...I'm rather amused that I'm an internet observer, rather than a U of M employee like friend Gina, and even I know her name is Dr. Barceló, not "Barcelow."<br /><br />Gina, the threat to post confidential information here was...probably unwise, whether or not you intend or are able to make good on it. I don't know many grown adults who threaten to post other people's pay stubs. But your employer and/or educational institution is observing this space, and you might ought to consider that while working through your anger by slinging racist slurs and threats at the protesters.<br /><br />Good luck to Dr. Barceló. It appears she's going to need it.Pope Lizbethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00506541826234667585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-87992667687975932642009-04-20T17:15:00.000-05:002009-04-20T17:15:00.000-05:00Do you even know who Dr. Barcelow is? She was the...Do you even know who Dr. Barcelow is? She was the first one in the room, we saw her go in. She was walking with a cane. <br /><br />Asleep? You mean when she was meeting with the facilitator in the hallway while we met in small groups? <br /><br />Maybe you should point that anger back at yourself as a faculty member/student/contributor to the oppression in Barker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-19577916165850734742009-04-20T11:09:00.000-05:002009-04-20T11:09:00.000-05:00Yes Rusty Barcelow was there. She arrived late, cl...Yes Rusty Barcelow was there. She arrived late, climbed to the top row of seats--did not participate in any conversations--and slept for the majority of the Town hall meeting. Yea, she'll show you lots of support.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-73359214987788345832009-04-18T22:38:00.000-05:002009-04-18T22:38:00.000-05:00This is so obnoxious. you have proven nothing beyo...This is so obnoxious. you have proven nothing beyond your capacity to demonstrate that you are imbeciles!!! Giving only your own idiotic make believe story. I ask what color is the sky in your world? Asses. Liars. The department has indeed made many attempts to address your issues. Employees of Dr. Chatterjea's dance company tore down the postings?!?!?!? Dr. Chatterjea hires lots of students. She believes in developing students, she believes in supporting students, so she hires them all the time. She has in fact hired some of the "anonymous" protesters!!!! Look here assholes, if you want to play that game, If you want to name names and call people out, I could easily call out some of the "protesters", list them by name, and post their paystubs if I wanted to, Oh but of course they can anononmously decide who is an employee of Dr. Chatterjea's company and who isn't. Should we leave it up to the IRS to determine employment status? Should we post who has been paid by Dr. Chatterjea's company and for how much? Because the vast majority of us VOLUNTEER!!!!! <br /><br />There HAVE absolutely been attempts to workshop and dialogue on the issues brought up by these uninformed children. The protestors want to keep THIS in the limelight, Continue to make THIS a spectacle instead of making any real progress. GROW UP!!! THIS is your 15 minutes of fame and its fading fast. Enjoy it while it lasts. THIS is comprised of a bunch of spoiled brats who have never had any boundaries until they arrived on a college campus and found out that mommy and daddy can't help influence their grades. This little witch hunt is growning tiresome. Get over yourselves. Open letter to Rusty Barcelow my ass. Of course nobody want's to let the "outsiders watching" know the truth. Not safe for whom? Not safe for people who decided they were people of color in January? Not safe for people who can choose conveniently when to identify as people of color? Get real. Dr. Barcelow has been actively involved for months. She attended the first Town hall meeting. She has been in communication with Carl Flink, Ananya Chatterjea, and many other faculty in the department. As have many others in her department who have tried to offer workshops on white privilege, racism, diversity. THIS protesters cannot stay releveant if any real meaningful work comes of this so they pretend that nothing has happened. I hope someone does silence your dumb asses soon because you look like idiots. Someone needs to rescue you from yourselves and educate you before your really hurt yourselves. Do us all a favor and get lost. <br /><br />--GinaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-88840097042578812562009-04-17T23:45:00.000-05:002009-04-17T23:45:00.000-05:00Hi, I have yet to enter this blog, but I must say ...Hi, I have yet to enter this blog, but I must say that the past few weeks have been quite the journey for me as a dance major, a friend, a student, a coworker, a human being, a white woman, etc. Although I have tried my best to look at both sides of these arguments, one thing that has really bothered me is the lack of not just communication, but the lack of GOOD communication.<br /><br />Enough of YOU YOU YOU. I am tired of hearing YOU did this and YOU did that. I see the value in pointing out mistakes made along the way but at a certain point, one has to step forward and own up to their mistakes. One has to sit back, meditate on their actions, and have the guts to say "Yup, I screwed up." <br /><br />I haven't heard a lot of that lately.<br /><br />We will never be able to move forward as a dance program until we are able to admit that no one has acted like angels throughout the progression of the protest and the discussions surrounding it.<br /><br />So, I will say that I screwed up by not taking the time to check in with my fellow classmates to see if they were ok. I screwed up because I did not take the time to educate myself on my white privilege and how it may have informed my interactions with THIS. I screwed up when I did not take the time to follow up with faculty, to pressure them to take measures and respond to THIS in their classes, rather than acting like everyone could ignore it once we stepped into the classroom.<br /><br />I realize that I have so much more to learn.<br /><br />I hope that I can learn to step back and listen better to what my fellow human beings are saying around me.<br /><br />I don't assume to know the complexity of everyone within this whole mess. So I am not going to critique someone, unless it is to their face, and we have the time to talk about it.<br /><br />More face to face time, and less batting about with words.<br /><br />Peace Out,<br /><br />MollyMollynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-66544921224438328042009-04-10T11:17:00.000-05:002009-04-10T11:17:00.000-05:00First of all, Props to you. Yes, you. You reading ...First of all, Props to you. Yes, you. You reading this right now. Props to the initiators of the THIS project. Props for following it online and having no idea that there used to be a fabulous food co-op next to the Barker of that the first stall in the women's restroom makes a funny sound when flushing or any other physical knowledge of the Barbara Barker Center for Dance's existence until the THIS blog showed up, however you stumbled upon it. Props to Ananya, Carl, Diyah, Toni and all other faculty representatives noted at THIS town halls showing up with ears of support and hearts yearning to understand. Props to Jessica, Brent and Lauren who physically removed the original “US” protest materials. Props to every reader on the blog who felt this was the wrong action, or the right action or whatever. <BR/><BR/>The point is, you deserve a positive acknowledgment for getting involved weather that is physical, emotional or Internet based. Why? Because it shows you care. It shows we all care about the points brought up to begin with, institutionalized and culturally generated racism, sexism, classism, body size judgments and other such social injustices. These issues, and creatively dealing with these issues did not begin on February 11 (or whenever the exact protest physically began). <BR/><BR/>I won't try to change your opinion and only expect you to take me as seriously as you want others to take you. I am a one year removed alumni of this department and honestly say that I know every name of the individuals that were attending the department upon my departure (which, is arguably now every current sophomore-senior who is not a new student for the 2008-2009) and even my signing my first name, they will know me. The Barbara Barker Center for Dance was my home for four years. I knew every detail, and was even paid by the department to educate newcomers on registration policies, departmental events, happenings and encourage THIS kind of behavior. I know Jessica, Brent and Lauren better than my first cousins. I know their intentions are educated, progressive and bold. I can not claim I know who the anonymous US protests are, but they have chosen to remain anonymous, erasing their bodies/histories/judgments from me as an observer, and to many of you, which is their choice because that has obviously been an important element in their efforts. But I can say that I am not surprised that THIS happened/is happening, and that I'm proud of US for continuing conversations that our faculty so boldly engage (....most all before our physical existence in the 80's.) <BR/><BR/>I moved to the East coast in the fall, and like many of you Internet followers, have been involved only for what I can experience on the world wide web. No, the all the details are not on the internet. Yes, it leaves many questions unanswered. And that's okay. That is the risk we run trying to record what can not be recorded: our bodies. <BR/><BR/>I challenge blog followers to see Jessica, Brent and Lauren's actions as PART of the protest, not a silencing of the protest. Don't you see? They are ' performing' their own protest, in the same way 'us' started it, by taking action physically, with their bodies, to CONTINUE working with the issues every physical body and spirit faces on a daily basis. Yes, they physically took it down. Yes, actions speak louder than words, but they choose to put their names THEIR BODIES and their reputations and their reasons on the line, and that is an incredibly important detail in this whole thing. <BR/><BR/>Didn't they make that clear? They are seeking the same answers US is, they are attempting to help address answers in their own way. Their actions need to be taken as sensitively and seriously as the original protest. They are reinventing the protest. They are evolving the protest. Don't be afraid of that people. Otherwise, it's just like a really bad high school break up. <BR/><BR/>And please, for the love of all things academia, stop trying to point and re point those snarky fingers everywhere. It's hard to follow and makes this whole thing more complicated. <BR/><BR/>After all, aren't we all after the same thing anyway? Peace? <BR/><BR/>In Peace,<BR/>KendraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-7463384845633198412009-04-10T07:59:00.000-05:002009-04-10T07:59:00.000-05:00They have actually and it doesn't include this blo...They have actually and it doesn't include this blog. The issues came from the Dance program and the solution needs to as well. Some of the hurt comes from the way we speak and inform one another here. We need to figure out a way to do that much better than we have before. I know some of you watch this from outside the community but unless the administration of this blog feels they would like to post updated information for you then my guess is no one else will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-58455796792379802962009-04-10T02:35:00.000-05:002009-04-10T02:35:00.000-05:00We seem to be arguing in circles here. Just what e...We seem to be arguing in circles here. Just what excatly do you, Jessica, Brent, and Lauren want to say?<BR/>There does not seem to be any headway in the current conversation. One side thinks they were right to pull down the protest. The other does not. Nobody is budging. Let us try another conversation.<BR/>So, Jessica, Brent and Lauren, start it! Start the conversation you said you wanted to start and tell US what you wanted to tell them. <BR/>Say what you wanted to.<BR/>-AviAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-19822042959426420472009-04-09T16:27:00.000-05:002009-04-09T16:27:00.000-05:00@74: "Who will rid me of this meddlesome protest?"...@74: "Who will rid me of this meddlesome protest?" The expressions of faculty members, formal or informal, are precisely equivalent to administrative pressure. It doesn't need to be a direct order; when systemic oppression is already in place, a mere suggestion is quite sufficient.<BR/><BR/>Had the administration and individual teachers upheld THIS from the beginning, made their own efforts to address the questions it raised instead of insisting that the whistleblowers also be in charge of developing solutions and then criticizing the recommendations, and given public statements supporting the right to anonymous protest and the value of having THIS on the walls of Barker, do you really think it would have been torn down so blithely?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-15758105365769189162009-04-09T16:11:00.000-05:002009-04-09T16:11:00.000-05:00It strikes me that when people write entries in a ...It strikes me that when people write entries in a blog that stretch past 250 words on a blog that either they have something important to say (an unfortunately rare situation) or they are thinking while writing (the far more common problem in the blogosphere). <BR/><BR/>I still ask those who so blithely ignore the question how has this ever been silenced by the "dance administration?" Even if some individual faculty members have expressed a desire to escape what has clearly for them been a stressful circumstance, the fact remains THIS was never taken down by administrative action or pressure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-48783875324354732762009-04-09T13:00:00.000-05:002009-04-09T13:00:00.000-05:00It's funny, everyone assumes the protesters are PO...It's funny, everyone assumes the protesters are POC. The protesters are anonymous and real social justice comes from all parties. Do i think taking down the materials was right? No, but i know that the real heroes that i admire whose voices and testimonies were plastered all over the walls were acting as martyrs for pet peeves and personal vendetta's. Now that they are down, they can be my heroes once more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-74128299841745291522009-04-09T12:06:00.000-05:002009-04-09T12:06:00.000-05:00@ Charles:I'll pass up your offer for workshops; a...@ Charles:<BR/><BR/>I'll pass up your offer for workshops; as I've stated here previously, I don't live in MN. I am an Internets Person who has been watching THIS since its inception, whose words appeared in the now-destroyed THIS protest, who has read every word, including departmental responses, and viewed every image available regarding this action available online, who has sent e-mail, whose e-mail has been responded to with staggeringly ignorant replies from at least one student.<BR/><BR/>I have been very angry, at very many times in my life, including now. I have witnessed public art that made me angry, protest actions that made me extremely angry, etcetera. One thing that I have never done? Removed someone's creation from a wall and thrown it in the garbage (or the recycling), and claimed that action was motivated with the desire to start a conversation. That's a conversation starter, of a sort, but the subject of conversation is fairly inevitably going to be "Why did you do that? What made you think you had the right? Don't you understand the weight and import and connotation of what you just did?" and that, sir, is the conversation which is happening here, now. With, as could be expected, quite a bit of anger behind it.<BR/><BR/>If I removed every public and nonsanctioned piece of protest/political speech I ever saw to which I objected - roadside signs threatening me with hell or decrying the evil of abortion, which are frequently posted on public right of way near where I live are a good example - I would not be living my own morals. As disgusted as I am by anti-abortionists who use the public right of way to post their speech, in contravention of the laws regarding the use of said right-of-way, I don't get out of the car, pull over, and tear their signs to pieces, because it isn't right to do that. It will only entrench the idea that pro-choice individuals wish to silence pro-life thought, as well, but before that consideration, it simply <I>is not right</I> for me to take that act upon myself purely because of the emotions engendered in me by its existence. The state road crew (a duly constituted authority for such removal) can take that upon itself; I cannot, if I want to respect myself tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>I would not, for one second, argue that the crude placards of my example represent 1/20th of the effort, both literal and artistic, put into the THIS protest. Nor would I, if I threw over my beliefs, engaged in and was caught at such an action, claim that by throwing those signs in the bin, that I was just trying to make sure we could have a *real* conversation about abortion, that people were just too upset by the signs to ensure productive discourse, etc. ad nauseam.<BR/><BR/>I remain ashamed and disgusted by the acts of those who took down the protest action, destroying the materials in the process, and then framed that action as their desire to start a conversation. I hold their example up alongside THIS, which responded to without removing criticism of their project, and simply replaced any materials that were removed or defaced. I doubt sincerely that those who removed the protest materials most recently were unaware of this practice - otherwise, why expend extra effort to crumple and trash the materials, while making pious statements about your attempts to preserve the Barker walls?<BR/><BR/>As an artist myself, the idea that conversations about themes that are fraught can only start when provocative/uncomfortable display of protest-through-art referencing and discussing those themes has been safely removed from sight and consigned to the trash is simply abhorrent, not to mention, well, ridiculous and contradictory. <BR/><BR/>As for your "have any of the protesters..." strawman? Not biting. No one has to wait until you decide their heart is sufficiently "truly oppressed" in order to feel pain or respond to what they perceive as the source of that pain. If the THIS protesters truly misrepresented the feelings of the FOC in the open letter, then that's an area where conversation could have taken place. I don't see how the removal of the protest was necessary for that, or any other conversation, to occur. <BR/><BR/>I'm not inclined to accept the assessments of THIS that come from someone who insists that these protest people are so loud in their daily lives that they must not really be oppressed enough, that their talk of racism is just a cover for bruised egos, that they're misleading us poor benighted Internet people regarding their motivations and experiences, that after all they're privileged, too, as is any university student in America, and so on, and so forth. Too bad I don't have a bingo card handy.<BR/><BR/>I've had my ego bruised before, and badly. I don't think I've ever undertaken nearly 2 months of activities which could potentially result in sanctions or arrest, at considerable personal expense, merely to salve my bruised ego, which is generally soothed well enough with knowledge of other personal achievements and maybe a heart-to-heart with a friend. Generally speaking, the level of effort I've seen expended here implies that the focus of the effort is truly important and meaningful to the person investing in it. If the content of your statement about egos is, as it appears to be, "It's not racism that motivates them, they're just mad they didn't get cast" - well, that argument's old, by this stage of the operation, and stinks even more now than it did back in early days.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I love how I'm brash and pedantic. I own the fact that called Jessica a liar here - and I do think that the claim that workshops are being organized with Jessica's assistance (using workshops arranged before THIS came to be as proof) <I>as a response to THIS</I> is spurious to the level of being a deliberate falsehood, as are her claims regarding the treatment and disposal of the protest materials - but I didn't tell anyone to kiss my ass, nor did I call anyone a "dumb ass", and while I stated that I feel Jessica's best bet is to stop talking unless what she wishes to say is an apology, I at least framed it in a manner other than than "sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up". Apparently it's only brash to use strong language if you're on the "wrong" side of the argument or using it in the direction of the "right" people.<BR/><BR/>The thing I love best? That I've apparently "wantonly ravaged" this board with words. Words =/= rape and pillage, Charles. Even ones that are angry and pointed. Even ones that make you uncomfortable because they're not full of compassion and peace, what with all the anger and indignation taking up the space.<BR/><BR/>Of course, that's why we're all here; someone felt threatened enough by words on a wall that "real conversations" (by the definitions of those who removed it, who are apparently arbiters of what is and is not a real conversation) couldn't ensue until those words (some of which were certainly brash, some of which were arguably pedantic) were stopped. As I said before - color me unsurprised that the first "real conversation" this removal and trashing sparked was focused on anger and resentment at the tactics of those who removed it and their idea that the protest is what was stopping "real" conversations from taking place.<BR/><BR/>You've already marked me off as requiring reeducation, so here's a hint: listen to Rosefox. She understands, too, that tearing apart someone's creation as the foundation of some supposed "real conversation" is an act of violence, and unlikely to produce sweet fruit.<BR/><BR/>Still disgusted,<BR/><BR/>ElizabethPope Lizbethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00506541826234667585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3369871183301349578.post-30124634981290005892009-04-09T11:22:00.000-05:002009-04-09T11:22:00.000-05:00Charles,I appreciate your reply, but I think you'r...Charles,<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your reply, but I think you're missing several points.<BR/><BR/><I>By removing the display, Jessica, Brent, and Lauren have not acted in a violent manner -- they, as prominent members of the dance community, have tried very hard to engage in a respectful conversation with THIS and its supporters. They don't want THIS to be a problem anymore, they want the students involved, the REAL BODIES, to be part of the solution.</I><BR/><BR/>You seem to be saying that when some white people decided that non-white people weren't interested in having a "respectful conversation", by the white people's definition, they felt it was okay to destroy the protest artwork of the non-white people and refer to it as a "problem". That doesn't sound at all respectful to me. It sounds like an attempt to control the form of the discourse. Just because it didn't involve physical assault against persons doesn't make it a thoughtful, kind, or productive action, or even a nonviolent one; tearing apart another person's artwork is inherently violent.<BR/><BR/><I>Has any student involved in THIS had to fight for survival in a country torn apart by war? Has any student involved in THIS had to worry about feeding and caring for their children while creating art that could possibly lead to their extermination?</I><BR/><BR/>This is a strawman. Are you saying that people must be sufficiently oppressed before they can complain? Why do you get to decide what "sufficiently oppressed" means?<BR/><BR/><I>I cannot silence you as much as I cannot pull this website down</I><BR/><BR/>Of course not, but a phrase like that sounds like you would if you could. Is that really the impression you want to give?<BR/><BR/><I>Jessica, Brent, and Lauren, took a HUGE step, one I hope you can realize was tempered with compassion and understanding, not ignorance and hate.</I><BR/><BR/>How can one destroy another person's heartfelt statement of protest, in the middle of the night, without informing that person of their intentions, and claim to do so in a spirit of compassion and understanding? Are you really saying "We had to take your toys away for your own good, you'll understand when you're older"? How unbearably patronizing.<BR/><BR/>Charles, if you're representative of white allies and activists in your program, no wonder the members of "Us" felt they had to take matters into their own hands rather than relying on your help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com